People have been asking me to explain to them in detailed yet “Simple” Terms why using an HHO Generator, to produce HHO Gas and improve the fuel efficiency of their car, DOES NOT violate the Laws of Thermodynamics. A simpler question is “Does it?” Here’s the simple answer. No it does not. But a simple answer like that to a simplified question doesn’t explain WHY. (one reason is their math… I’ll explain that near the end…) So let’s take a closer look and break it all down.
Does Supplementing Your Gasoline With HHO Gas DEFY The Laws of Physics?
You know the saying “If it Sounds Too Good to be True it Probably Is?” Lucky for you this aint one of those moments. The Laws of Physics that are in question here are specifically the 1st and 2nd Laws of Thermodynamics. So what are they?
The First Law simply States that energy or matter can neither be created nor destroyed. It can change form, as in solid to liquid to gas to plasma and back again, but the amount of energy in the system (the universe) stays constant. Okay, that’s simple enough… So no matter what you do, you can’t win. Great.
The Second Law essentially says that it is impossible to achieve a method where the particular effect is the subtraction of a positive heat from a source and the creation of a positive work. Energy exhibits entropy, meaning it’s performance will decay. Energy moves away from its source, and in this matter, energy or heat cannot flow from a colder body to a hotter body. You cannot keep a constant outflow of heat to work to heat to work without adding energy to the system. In mechanical terms, you have to add energy to get more work, and the ratio of heat to work will never equal 100% because energy always flows away from its source. That explanation is a little more complicated, but basically it means that it’s impossible to break even. One cannot return to the same energy capacity because entropy always increases.
The Second Law says that while the amount of energy remains the same, the quality deteriorates over time. Because heat, like energy, doesn’t just flow in one direction like you might think it does in a battery circuit. In reality heat/energy radiates out and away from its source much like a flame on a candle. (Don’t believe me? If you’re reading this with your laptop simply feel your adapter on the power cord or just place your hand on the bottom of your laptop. If energy was 100% efficient and never left the electrical circuits in your laptop then there wouldn’t be heat Radiating out of it or the adapter.)
So What Does HHO Gas Have To Do With Physics?
If you Google search HHO, or HHO Gas and check the forums on snopes or other HHO group forums, you will see people all over saying that “you can’t use water or hydrogen to fuel your car.” They will say that “it takes more energy to split the water into hydrogen and oxygen than burning the hydrogen gives you.” They say that “you can’t get more energy out of something than what you put in to it.” And they also say that “putting a load on your battery, sending electricity to the HHO Generator to split the water into HHO Gas, will make your alternator work harder to recharge your battery so your car doesn’t die while you’re driving… and getting the alternator to recharge the battery requires that you burn fuel, so in actuality you would be burning MORE fuel rather than Saving it.” (Ok, THAT part might be true for the idiots who don’t follow directions and are trying to conduct electricity through water WITHOUT first adding the electrolyte to the water solution. *Cough* MythBusters! *Cough* … Excuse me, had something stuck in my throat..) There are also people who say that “it’s only obvious that the rumored benefits of HHO is just a hoax” and yet in all their “wisdom” … these are the same guys trying to give validity to their statements by posting links (in their forum comments) to pdf files that say stuff like “an hour in the library is worth a month in the lab.”
You know what I say? These guys are idiots. Because I know First Hand that An OUNCE of EXPERIENCE is worth MORE than a TON of THEORY. I also know that when everyone is saying that their math doesn’t add up… there are a few reasons why.
For one… in the math they use they will state that “you use and therefore Lose energy from the battery to produce the hydrogen and oxygen, and that makes the alternator work harder.” From there they usually like to say that “burning hydrogen equals x number therms/BTU’s of energy” or some other misguided mathematical fluff, and that “burning the hydrogen in the engine will actually lead to an engine with less horsepower because you used 6.7 hp to create the H2 to get a gain of 1.6 hp.” Notice how they keep talking about hydrogen and H2 and completely IGNORE the fact that we are using the oxygen. Sure electrolysis splits the water into hydrogen and oxygen, but we don’t throw away one and just burn the other! HHO is already in the perfect mixture which yields Maximum burn potential, so when you use it as a catalyst to the Gasoline, you burn ALL the Gasoline MORE Efficiently! Why throw away the oxygen? It makes no sense to do that. But that’s exactly what they do in the math. And there is one more thing they do when they start spouting math, but I’ll get to that near the end… (By The Way, Gasoline = 5.6 million BTU/barrel (a barrel is 42 US gallons by definition; not to be confused with our 55 gallon drum) = 1.33 therms / gallon. Which means that 1 therm = 100,000 BTU and 1,000 kWh = 3.41 million BTU)
Check it out. My favorite math equation from these people is SO messed up it’s actually sad. Here, the individual was quoting from a website promoting an actually Large HHO Generator meant for industrial use and he tried using the numbers to explain why it wouldn’t work for your car. Here’s what he said:
Generates 1500 liters (53 cubic feet) of New gas per hour
Consumes about 5kw/h
Operates at 20 Amps and 220/240 VAC
kw/h is energy, not power. At those amps and voltage it’s pulling 5 kW.
1500 l = 67 moles gas
Assuming total hydrolysis, 2/3 of the molecules are H2 so
45 moles H2
90 g H2 per hour produced
Enthalpy of hydrolysis is 39 W-h/g hydrogen.
= 3510 W required to form H2 from water at this output rate
= 3510 W is the max amount of energy you can get back when you burn the stuff. In an ICE, you’ll get more like 35% of that, 1230 W.
But the page claims 5000 W is required input.
So basically, you use 5 kW (6.7 hp) to gain 1.2 kW (1.6 hp) using a really old and obvious piece of technology.
Ok, I’ll admit, at first glance his conclusion would probably scare most people away from HHO. So How bout this… Let’s rip his Math to shreds piece by piece. First of all, 1500 liters of gas per hour breaks down to 25 liters of HHO Gas per minute. That’s some Serious HHO Generator! Most vehicle sized HHO Generators have a hard time getting up to 6 liters per minute of HHO Gas production. But the ones that do put out 6Lmp of HHO Gas per minute are only putting out 360 liters of HHO Gas per hour. And the ones that do are only using about 500 watts to do it. The HHO Gas Generator Kit that I have is only putting out about 2.5 liters per minute, which equals 150 liters per hour of HHO Gas production…so where’s his math on that? Why not put out some math that would be more practical to the real world and the people looking to benefit from the use of HHO Gas? And once again… let’s also notice that he is only calculating for the hydrogen. He Even SHOWS everyone that he is ONLY calculating the Hydrogen/H2 Production in his equation. Look at it again. “1500 l = 67 moles gas” ”Assuming total hydrolysis, 2/3 of the molecules are H2 so 45 moles H2.“ And the Craziest thing is… He’s not the only one doing it! … Are you starting to see the pattern here?
Here’s the honest truth. I do not study physics and I cannot do calculus. What I do know is that I have tried it for myself. Therefore I have the Experience, therefore all of their theory and “Library time” is garbage to me because I know It Works and so do Thousands of other drivers who have converted their vehicles into HHO Hybrids.
HHO Gas VS Physics- And The Winner IS
HHO Gas. And here’s why…
There are no laws being violated. Only Half the Math equation is being used- it’s that Simple. Those that claim that the math proves that HHO is a sham, only factor the amount of energy used to create the hydrogen and oxygen during electrolysis. No one ever disputes that it takes energy to produce the HHO Gas mixture. Majority of the HHO Kits on this site use less than 500 watts to make a sufficient amount of HHO Gas (less than a 500 watt amplifier on a stereo). Since it’s been proven that there are 746 watts per horsepower, then that means that we are using LESS than one horse to create the hydrogen /oxygen gas (HHO). Now, let’s say we inject that perfectly pure hydrogen and oxygen gas mixture into an extremely INEFFICIENT engine (most engines are only 18-20% efficient) and we increase the efficiency say only 5%. On a 150 horsepower engine, that’s an improvement of 7.5 horsepower right? SO we just used less than one horse to create a gas that causes the existing fuel to burn more efficiently and thoroughly (as evidenced by emission drops), and that gas causes a net gain of 6.5 horses because of it. Or the vehicle gets better mileage…SIMPLE.
So now, when someone asks you about HHO, because you’ve been to this site you can explain how the math everyone is spouting is wrong and only half the equation is being used, because they only account for the energy used to produce the HHO Gas, and they only calculate for the Hydrogen in their “Physics.” You’ll also be able to quote the Laws like it’s no problem, and you will even be able to explain in great detail how the HHO System works and how the HHO Gas is used as a Catalyst and a Complimenting Supplement to the gasoline during combustion. And the best part is that now, thanks to this article, you will be able to explain WHY an HHO System Does NOT violate the Laws of Thermodynamics. It’s because THERE ARE NO LAWS BEING VIOLATED.
And lastly… go easy on the knuckleheads and doubters that keep screaming from the rooftops that HHO is a scam. It’s not their fault they haven’t got it yet. Cause let’s face it… even Physicists and Mathematicians can be wrong. Look at this quote from a former leader in both those fields:
“Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible.” (Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895)
And you know what… it’s a good thing the Wright Brother’s never listened to him and gave up what they were working so hard to achieve, because 8 years later they proved that flight IS possible. Oh heck, you know what, I’m having so much fun on this article let’s quote Lord Kelvin some more!
“X rays are a hoax.” “Aircraft flight is impossible.” “Radio has no future.” — Physicist and mathematician Lord Kelvin (1824-1907)
Here’s the moral of the story and why I’m putting Lord Kelvin and all his… wrongness and “shortcomings” on display. As time moves on old laws are being “broken” and new ones are being made, such is the case of the Wright Brothers when they disproved a number of aerodynamics theories and Proved that Flight IS Possible. Truth be told, Laws in the end are just Theories that can either be confirmed or disproved. Not Broken. So, much like the Wright Brothers and their First Flight… In the case against HHO Gas and it “breaking” of the Laws of Thermodynamics… It’s Not.
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